In true troll fashion, Aspilanti84 can cause drama where there is none. Now, he’s arguing semantics to inflame drama.
Stop saying this game (along with others) is “broken” when what you really mean “I’m not used to this system”. The term “broken” does not mean “I wanted/wish/would have like if the system were something else”, nor does it mean “ I don’t like it”.
Broken means something does not work objectively, not that “it doesn’t work for me and my sensibilities/taste”. If every time your character attacked, and the weapon moved, hit the enemy and nothing happened to its hit points, then it would be considered broken. That’s what the term “broken” means. But it’s not broken. It works. Squaresoft had some very professional debuggers to fix many of the problems that arose in production.
“It’s broken” is not something you say when you are displeased at how something turned out. Use words correctly.
It seems that Aspilanti84 is misunderstanding the colloquial understanding of ‘broken’ in this context. Maybe they’re going for the literal meaning, just to troll? Others point out that broken, in this context, roughly mean “over-powered”. Then again, Apsilanti84 readies their rebuttal:
Says here in the Game Breakers article (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GameBreaker):
“Note that this is not another word for ‘overpowered’. To be a true game breaker, the ability or character in question must be so hideously unbalanced that it makes people just quit the game in disgust.”
Everybody latched on to an article that doesn’t support their view of what they think broken means. That’s herd mentality if I’ve ever seen it, par excellence.
So basically, s/he’s using their arguments against them.
And most importantly, you don’t have to exploit any part of the game that makes it easier. Instant…“fix”.
True, but shouldn’t it be the game developer’s responsibility to keep exploitation from happening in the first place? Shouldn’t the city fix potholes in the road, to keep cars from riding over them? Aspilanti84 continues:
All the examples they give (even the Final Fantasy games) are debatable. Even the article (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GameBreaker) points this out. They list ALL of the Final Fantasy games as being potentially broken as well. But none of you want to even debate this, because “well, the article says” “that’s not what the article says” “hahaha, the article owned you”…
Yes, if you get the best items of any thing it makes ANY game easier. You get it because you want it be easier, then complain when it’s not hard enough for your standards. Every game has the potential to disgust, because disgust is so subjective and some people are better at games than others.
By the way, the pothole analogy fails because pothole can destroy the roads if you ignore them. The game should be better and less “ broken” if you ignore the junction system, by our logic.
What I’ve listed as the qualifications of brokenness are based on objectivity and order, not your emotions. I’m not making an emotional argument like you all are.
All of you seem to ignore this, while herding around and gloating about arguments some article (which doesn’t support your opinion 100%) made for you. And if I have to go against the article, so what?
So then, the game isn’t destroyed by game’s game breaking status, therefore it isn’t broken. Gotcha.
So far, this misunderstanding is slightly annoying. But Aspilanti84 is starting to get a little bit more elitist by the way s/he talks.
What I’ve listed as the qualifications of brokenness are based on objectivity and order, not your emotions.
I’m not making an emotional argument like you all are.
So then everybody thinks this game is broken because they had guides to help them break the game, and then when it became too easy they quit in disgust.
What an unpleasant person. But wait, there’s more:
Cool. I love the game too. I think we all like it since we’re here discussing it. I don’t know why other people feel my arguments are coming from a place of emotion. I don’t think they are; it’s genuinely based on a desire to explore what it means for a game to be broken. (Some say FF2 is broken. That’s why I mention it. And I am currently playing it.)
From my overly semantic explanation, broken is based on whether or not the game works – to the point where you are physically unable to play. From everyone’s colloquial definition, broken = overpowered, where it is so easy you don’t feel like playing it anymore. But I still felt like playing, and there were some times later on in the game where I wasn’t overpowered.
My definition is absolute but narrow, everyone else’s definition is relative, broad and debatable.
In other words, under my definition can a game be broken? Yes, absolutely. Under everyone else’s definition can a game be broken? Yes, or no. Maybe. It depends (on several different factors). It depends on how you view it. It’s possible then for some to think it is broken but others to think it’s not.
Under my definition, FF8 is obviously not broken. Under the colloquial definition, FF8 can be broken to some, but might not broken for others (not me or other first time players). If it cannot be broken to some, then it is possible that FF8 can not broken (to some).
In either case (colloquial and literal), I’m right. In only the colloquial sense can those who say FF8 is broken be right. But even in the colloquial sense, I’m right. No one is more right than the other.
Logic, reason, rationality. No emotions needed.
Remember how Dr. Hojo talked to people in Final Fantasy VII? Remember how it really got under your skin? It doesn’t matter how smart you are. You could be a genius. But if you don’t talk to people with courtesy or respect, why should anyone ever want to listen to you?
Unless you’re their boss. Oh god, I hope Apsilanti84 isn’t lording over someone as their boss right now. I feel sorry for anyone who works under them.
Finally, a user named phiefer3 explains that Aspilanti84’s definition of “broken” is way too narrow. Once you become over powered early on in the game – that’s it – there’s no returning to normal. The game is ruined for you if you like the challenge. So what’s Aspilanti84’s response?
phiefer3, that’s like saying that a math book is broken, because once you know the answers are in the back, you’ll never solve the problems for yourself. Just don’t look in the back.
Every game challenges you, and temptation can be apart of the challenge. You don’t have to take the route you know will be easy. Resist! Don’t spam magic to 99. Show restraint. If not this time, then maybe next play through. Maybe the game’s challenge is the vast amounts of temptingly breakable items it sets before you to resist. Every action has consequences. The power is ultimately in the gamer’s hands.
Balance is subjective, and perfect is an unattainable concept. There is no such things as perfect balance. Think of the things that “break” the game as “loopholes” that “tip” the game in your favor. Without them, the game tips back the other way: towards the game trying to best you. With that in mind, it’s almost as good as deciding whether you want to play “easy mode” or “hard mode” without the game being blantant about it. That’s the genius about Final Fantasy games.
Magic spamming, card moddings and the best weapons are powerful agents to the uninitiated… but we are initiated, aren’t we phiefer3?
Who is Aspilanti84, Bane? Well, in this thread, they truly are the bane of the users. I don’t think s/he’s “broken” anyone yet.
ferdk16 states “By that logic every single game in the world is ultra hard, as long as you avoid doing the things that help you beat it. In fact, if you commit to it, every game is impossible! :D” Bravo.
We’re not talking about every game, but in this context, you don’t have to take the route that will completely break the game.
If a game has an “easy mode” or “hard mode”, you don’t have to take the “easy mode”, or use cheats, or draw 99 Magic.
More people are starting to join in and take Aspilanti84’s argument seriously. Why? I guess because they want to take them down for good, and shut them up.
BSBladeSwordman says: “TC has changed what his argument is with every new post. It started off with him telling us that we don’t understand the definition of words and to stop calling FFVIII broken, and now he’s saying that actually it can be as easy or hard as you want to be depending on how you choose to play it.”
To which Aspilanti84 rebuts:
I don’t think you see/know how my argument works. The game is not “broken” under my defintion since it’s programmed to work. Under your definition of “broken”, you complain that the game allows you to find loopholes to make you stronger – so strong you can breeze through it. It’s not the game’s fault you can’t stop yourself from exploiting it. It’s literally your fault; your lack of control. Even then, under your definition, broken is too relative and subjective to have any objective meaning (which makes me right by default). It can be easy or hard depending on how you choose to play it, very much the same way many games you don’t believe to be “broken” can…
BSBladeSwordman posts: “I honestly have no idea what his argument even is anymore. I thought that he was rubbing it in our faces how we’re all stupid and don’t understand what the word broken means…”
True. And then Aspilanti84 rejoins:
That’s your first problem. I didn’t come here to tell you “how stupid you all are”. I wish women’s nipples were half as sensitive as some of you.
What? BSBladeSwordmans tells Aspilanti84 to stop using “broken” this way, if they mean something else. Aspilanti84 tries to take the moral high ground, by making them seem like censorers I guess:
So you have the right to say what I cannot say? Just like your idea of “broken”, it’s subjective, relative, inconsistent…and just hypocritical.
All you’re saying is “everyone else says broken, that’s good enough for me”. If that’s how you feel…
You know, in the same way that you don’t have to “break” FF8, you don’t have to respond to me. But you can’t help yourself…
This is like satirical performance art on a grand scale. Nice way to tie in the situation with the argument. I can’t help but think that this was the ultimate goal. Apsilanti84 seems to run out of steam at this point. They aren’t responding as frequently enough to the other users. I think there isn’t much more where Aspilanti84 can run to, but knowing them they’re probably taking a victory lap around everyone, for simply running in circles around the topic.
“The vase can be broken” is different from saying “the vase is broken”. Likewise, don’t say the game is broken just because it can be broken. Many thing that aren’t broken can be broken, just as many things that can be broken…aren’t. So much for last week’s new attempt to find a contradiction in what I’ve said. I’m looking forward to the next one that everyone will repeat in vogue, to get the bad arguments out of the way. This is a great learning experience for us all! 🙂
Plus, when did I say FF8 was broken? I was using a hypothetical to show how, in the way you all use broken, its just emotional nonsense that my argument/definition suffers no consequence from. That’s all.
There’s much more to my argument, but I think (not feel) that many here are ignoring the subtle nuances of my argument, in order to hold on to a faulty definition. Which is OK, I can only imagine how good that feels. If you just want to say it because it feels right, you don’t need to pretend to have an argument (I.e. “everybody else says it” is hive mind speak, not an argument). But if you want to use it correctly, study my argument. It’s not that complex…
Many are trying in vain to point out contradictions I did not make, in a desparate attempt to prove this argument wrong. Part of this thread’s frustration comes with the fact that many of you do not understand the argument in its entirety or how it even works. So of course you all are a little peeve as to how to approach the argument. That’s fine. It does not make any of you stupid. It takes some time to mentally digest what I wrote. In the meantime, a challenge to your worldview may result in irrational anger, needless mockery and scorn for feeling unjustifiably inadequate…for no reason at all. You do not have to feel this way. I assure you one day it’ll all “click” for you…
This is the last thing Aspilanti84 wrote on this subject, probably because another user wanted them to clarify their argument.
But as you can see, the point was never about clarification. It was about making people angry. The only thing broken here was the argument.